Interview: @Kay_TheManager Talks Challenges Women Face In The Industry, Artist Empowerment & More

[Photograph shot by Loyiso Dlamini]

I first came across the name Kay The Manager on Twitter when she was ferociously fighting the ill-treatment of her artist. It was refreshing to see a manager standing up for the artist wholeheartedly. I started following Kay The Manager and found that she is someone who truly cares for her artists and has a passion for artist empowerment. Artist empowerment has long been a topic in the industry but rarely do I come across someone who shares Kay The Manager's level of transparency when it comes to what artists should look out for. 

Up and coming artists face a lot of challenges as it is. What are some of the additional challenges you face as a black woman in this industry?

Yoh already! Let's jump into it. There isn't a formula to being a manager. You just jump into it and you do what you think is best and sometimes you're gonna make mistakes and you get judged twice as harshly as a black woman. There are things that men can get away with that black women can't, but it's a man's world, I think it applies in any industry. One of the challenges I think women managers experience is not being able to go to certain events because they don't feel safe. There are men you can't have professional exchanges with because the whole time they're just sexualising you. I've had men be like 'oh you're lil artist? I can put her on, I just need one night with you' and those are some of the gatekeepers. Some don't see a manager, they just see a sex symbol. 

What can platforms like Slikouronlife or other online media platforms do to improve or assist with the challenges women face?

I think platforms are trying in terms of putting on the actual music. I can't fault platforms like Slikouronlife, Hype Magazine and Culture Collecter. All these platforms do well in terms of putting the actual body of work out but I think we can all agree that making it in the industry doesn't just encompass your music. It's all these other elements that assist the artist with how they make their money. Who should be on their team to make that happen? That's a platform that you guys need to open. Artists need a platform to tell them that this is the difference between a mechanical right and master rights or this is the difference between a synchronisation deal and a licensing deal. I think artists are lacking a place to find information. They don't have a place to go where they can understand the business side. They are focused on the craft and all of this is jargon to them. I think it becomes easier if we use the platforms that take on their music as opposed to just slapping them with articles. I do think it's time we invite people like brand managers and entertainment lawyers to have these conversations about where we are helping artists make a day to day living from what they do. Opening up that conversation will make people like me accountable and we can avoid situations where we have rich managers and broke artists. 

Are there any resources out there that artists can use to get market-related prices for endorsements or influencer gigs?

To get market-related prices you have to go into what you're doing. That information on its own isn't available to artists until they are going through the process. That on its own is a gatekeeper and that puts the artist at a disadvantage because they don't know the value of a synchronisation deal. They don't know the value of their music in an advert or elsewhere. I do think there are people in the industry that are open to that level of transparency. I do think there are great pioneers in the industry that would be willing to have that conversation. Now that I have a bit of experience with synchronisation deals, I know that to license music to a series costs +/- 20k per song because they have to pay for both the master rights and composition rights. I think there are a lot of professionals that don't know of platforms where they can talk about things like this.

I have a lot of trouble making this information cool for artists to read. I think a video series with someone like yourself would get artists interested. Would be open to doing something like that?

I am open to doing something like that but I would need support from a platform like Slikouronlife. I need the backing from the big guy and the OG's of hip hop because that's where a lot of money is being exchanged. Music is expensive so if you aren't willing to pay for that artist, please don't approach them on some 'I'll give you exposure' because exposure doesn't pay the bills. If I were to get backing from bigger platforms then I would do it. 

You are big on accountability and you recognise that the manager and artist relationship is a unique dynamic because the relationship has to work on a personal level, to work on a professional level. With the manager/artist relationship being so unique, what are some of the 'red flags' an artist should look out for in their relationship with their manager?

My biggest red flag is a manager who doesn't take an interest in your personal life because it's tough to separate the artist from the person. I get concerned if a manager doesn't know who their artists' mom is or where they live. My next red flag is a manager who doesn't ask for your personal details like next of kin or just shows a lack of care for your well being. Another red flag is a manager who conceals certain things about their personal life. If your manager can hide things like where they live then what else can they hide from you?

I sync my communication with my artist so we both have sight of whatever is going on. I get worried when the artist doesn't have access to that information. I also get worried if the manager doesn't have sight of who the artist gets approached by. 

I get that money is a sensitive topic but I get worried when managers don't want to talk about it. There needs to be a clear line of how the manager is compensated or how the manager is not compensated. Look out for managers that ask for master rights. It's a big no from my camp. I'm not a creative Lesiba, I can't sing or rap to save my life. What am I doing with the master rights of an artists god-given talent? I just wanna get paid to do my job. One of the clauses in my agreements is that I don't have anything to do with your master rights. 

Benzo is the first artist you managed and the two of you have achieved so much in a short space of time. What are some of the challenges that the two of you have had to overcome and what lessons have you learnt from those experiences?

I think I speak for both of us when I say, the biggest challenge we are yet to overcome is manoeuvering inside the industry. It is tough. You don't know who to trust or who to collaborate with. There's a point at which an upcoming artists career peaks and when it peaks, it's the time to break into the industry and that's where we are now. We are literally one decision away from Enzo being the biggest artist in South Africa. The biggest challenge we're facing now is that we've achieved all these things but what does it mean? It's not even the process of making the music and getting it out there that's difficult, it's the people. We're learning the hard way that the industry is cold. Sometimes it doesn't matter how hard you've worked, it's just not you're time and you're still having the wrong conversations with the wrong people. You just pray that eventually you'll be led to the right hands. I think we're a great team but we're at an impasse where we can't turn back. We're just waiting to land in the right hands. It's very scary because we have to keep watch of people who want to use us but at the same time we have to learn to let people in so we know how to move forward with those people.

When it comes to communicating in the industry, do you have a tough time communicating with brand managers or do you have a tougher time talking to people that work within the industry?

I will say it's the 'connect' side. If you have someone's number that I want to talk to, I will have a tough time getting to that person. I have a smooth tongue so I don't have a difficult time with negotiations. If it doesn't serve me, I walk. I don't even talk to record labels because that's a lot of drama. My strategy is to wait for them to come to me. Initially, my management style was to go around knocking down doors but now I put the music out and whoever wants to deal with us will come to us. 

You manage a diverse group of artists and some are further along in their careers than others. What are the differences in managing someone with a buzz versus a blank canvas? 

Contrary to popular belief, it's easier to work with a blank canvas. I always compare it to getting a tattoo. Getting a tattoo on a blank canvas is easier than getting a cover-up done. Working with someone with a buzz is difficult because they have had someone who played a managerial role, even if it wasn't official. So when you step into that portfolio, you have to backtrack and find out how to align yourself with how they’ve worked until this point. I'm having that challenge with Skolleywood. Her parents have played a managerial role in her career up till now, but I have had to prove that I'm worth the investment and I can take Skolleywood to wherever it is that she needs to go. Covid has also proven to be a challenge in the relationship. One minute you can meet up and the next minute you can't meet up and parents are a lot more cautious when it comes to things like that. 

One of my youngest, Lumai, has been in the game but she's been very lowkey. She's been in spaces with artists like Blxckie and Case-Klowzed but now that she has management, it's easier for her to navigate those spaces but because she is young, I sort of have to protect her a bit more.

I'm also shy to tell you guys that I'm managing Deekay DidIt, who also has her own buzz. Another empty canvas I'm enjoying is Lia Butler because she is more laissez-faire and she is taking her time. I enjoy that about her. It's difficult when you're managing people in different stages because they think 'why isn't it happening as quickly for me?'. You have to constantly remind artists that even though they are being managed by the same entity, they are different artists and their journey won't be the same.

You seem to have a knack for picking superstars and I’m sure a lot of artists hit you up to manage them. How do you pick the artists you manage?

It's going to sound cliche but it's a feeling I get. It's an experience that I get when I listen to their music. I'm also a very spiritual person, so you can have the dopest song but if I'm not feeling your energy then it's not going to work. I get that feeling a lot of the time but I've had to discipline myself and accept that I can't commit myself to too many artists because they all need me in the same way, so I've started offering consultations for R350. I take a look at your career and I see who I can connect you with. Something else that I do is teach artists email etiquette because they don't know it. I get a lot of 'yo' messages. Like 'Yo' what?*chuckles*. I also advise on what your rate card should look like, what your bio should look like and any other things a manager would look out for.

In closing, what is the one piece of advice you would give to young girls that want to be like you?

The world is your oyster. You need to get out there and belt out whatever you want to do to the world. You can't half-ass your effort in anything. You need to put in your best in everything you do because you never know who is looking. Just do not half-ass anything that you do. Black girl is magic is something amazing. Black women have an out of this world business acumen because they are nurturing by nature and that's what's been lacking in business. We need more black girls in the business. We need more black women in managerial roles. We need more black women sharing what they have experienced.